The Church Revitalization Podcast – Episode 285
Church revitalization is not for the faint of heart. While many congregations recognize the need for renewal and change, not all who begin the journey complete it successfully. The failure of church revitalization rarely stems from poor ideas, inadequate resources, or even church size and demographics. Instead, the roadblocks to successful church transformation typically fall into three distinct categories that have more to do with leadership, courage, and commitment.
Understanding these common pitfalls is crucial for any church considering or currently undergoing a revitalization process. Whether you’re working with an outside consultant or navigating the journey internally, recognizing these potential failure points can help your congregation avoid becoming another statistic of stalled renewal. Let’s examine the three types of churches that typically struggle with revitalization and how you can ensure your congregation doesn’t fall into these traps.
1. The Poorly Pastored Church
Perhaps the quickest route to a failed revitalization effort is ineffective pastoral leadership. When the senior pastor isn’t fully engaged in or supportive of the revitalization process, the initiative is often dead on arrival. This manifests in several critical ways:
Lack of Pastoral Buy-In
For a church to successfully navigate revitalization, the pastor must not only approve the process but actively champion it. When a revitalization effort is initiated by church elders or other leaders without the senior pastor’s enthusiastic participation, problems inevitably arise. A lukewarm pastor rarely becomes more engaged as the process continues—more commonly, initial ambivalence turns to resistance.
The pastor needs to be the primary advocate for the vision and direction of the church. Like a pilot, the pastor doesn’t necessarily determine the destination alone, but they must be committed to flying the plane to that destination. If everyone on the plane wants to go to Toronto, but the pilot doesn’t, you have a fundamental problem that no amount of planning can overcome.
Conflict Avoidance
Even when a pastor initially supports the revitalization process, many struggle when facing inevitable resistance from congregation members. The conflict-averse pastor may verbally agree with someone’s concerns in private conversations, only to make different decisions in leadership meetings. This behavior attempts to maintain relationships through temporary appeasement, but ultimately destroys trust when actions don’t match words.
Effective pastoral leadership during revitalization requires speaking truthfully and compassionately when addressing concerns. Rather than falsely agreeing with opposition, skilled pastors acknowledge concerns while clearly explaining why the church is moving in a particular direction. This approach maintains both integrity and relationships during challenging transitions.
Leadership Ability
Revitalization often requires pastors to step up to a higher level of leadership than they’ve previously exercised. Some pastors simply aren’t prepared or willing to lead through difficult changes, make tough decisions, or stand firm when facing pushback. For revitalization to succeed, the pastor must be capable of consistent, courageous leadership that won’t waver when challenges arise.
Before embarking on a revitalization journey, pastors should honestly assess their willingness to lead through discomfort, make difficult decisions, and champion change even when it isn’t popular. Without this commitment at the pastoral level, even the best-designed revitalization plan is unlikely to succeed.
2. The Timid Church
While pastoral leadership is crucial, even the most committed pastor cannot drive revitalization alone. When a congregation lacks the fortitude to implement necessary changes, the revitalization process stalls. This “timid church” phenomenon affects congregations of all sizes and manifests differently depending on church context.
Fear of Program Changes
In smaller churches experiencing decline, timidity often appears as an unwillingness to modify or eliminate ineffective programs. A church that once had 200 members might now have 50, yet maintains the same committee structure and program calendar. Leaders recognize the unsustainability but fear making changes that might upset long-term members or tradition-keepers.
This problem becomes particularly acute when discussing ministries that have sentimental value but minimal spiritual fruit. The timid church allows nostalgia to override mission, clinging to “the way we’ve always done it” even when those methods no longer serve the church’s purpose effectively.
Entrenched Politics
In larger churches, timidity typically manifests at the staff level. Department leaders resist changes to “their” programs, budgets, or ministry areas. This resistance often stems from insecurity—concerns about job security, professional reputation, or personal value to the organization. Staff members may interpret proposed changes as personal criticism rather than strategic adjustments.
These entrenched politics can paralyze a revitalization process, with each department protecting its territory rather than considering what’s best for the church’s overall mission. Progress becomes impossible when individual interests consistently override collective purpose.
Avoiding Giants in the Land
The Biblical account of the Israelites approaching the Promised Land provides an apt metaphor for many churches in revitalization. Like the Israelites who saw giants and retreated in fear, timid churches glimpse the challenges ahead and decide the cost is too high. Instead of confronting obstacles with faith and perseverance, they revert to comfortable patterns and familiar territory.
The result is a forty-year wilderness experience—except many declining churches don’t have forty years of resources remaining. Timidity in the face of necessary change isn’t just unfortunate; it can be fatal to a church’s long-term viability and mission.
To overcome timidity, church leaders must help the congregation focus on the bigger picture—the mission that transcends any individual program, preference, or person. This requires consistently connecting proposed changes to the church’s core purpose and painting a compelling vision of what lies beyond the immediate challenges.
3. The Lazy Church
Perhaps the most common obstacle to successful revitalization is simply a lack of sustained effort. The “lazy church” may initially express enthusiasm about renewal, but quickly loses momentum when faced with the consistent work required for transformation. Unlike the timid church that fears change, the lazy church acknowledges the need for change but lacks the discipline to implement it.
Initial Enthusiasm Without Follow-Through
Many churches begin the revitalization process with genuine excitement. Leaders attend planning meetings, congregation members participate in visioning sessions, and everyone agrees on the need for change. This initial enthusiasm creates a sense that progress is being made, but actual implementation requires more than meetings and discussions.
When the time comes to execute the plan—to make real changes that require consistent effort—the energy dissipates. The lazy church mistakes planning for progress and confuses talking about change with actually changing.
Loss of Momentum
Momentum is a powerful force in church revitalization. When implementation begins quickly and proceeds consistently, early wins fuel enthusiasm for the next steps. However, when gaps develop between planning and execution, or between implementation phases, momentum evaporates.
Churches that delay implementation by more than 4-6 weeks after planning often find themselves unable to recapture the initial energy. Congregation members forget details, enthusiasm wanes, and the sense of urgency dissipates. Once lost, momentum is extremely difficult to regain, and most churches lack the resources to restart the process from the beginning.
Inconsistent Implementation
Even churches that begin implementation may fall short by not following a consistent, disciplined approach. They might hold one implementation meeting but then skip the next few. They might tackle the easiest projects first but avoid the more challenging or important initiatives. This inconsistent approach rarely produces meaningful results.
Successful church revitalization requires adhering to a structured implementation process. Churches that follow established methodologies with fidelity consistently outperform those that cherry-pick elements or create their own approach. The difference isn’t in the complexity of the method but in the church’s commitment to consistent execution.
Moving Forward Successfully
While these three types of churches represent common failure points in revitalization, understanding these pitfalls provides the opportunity to avoid them. Church revitalization is absolutely possible when:
- Pastors commit to authentic, courageous leadership through the entire process
- Congregations develop the fortitude to face challenges directly rather than retreating in fear
- Leaders maintain disciplined implementation that builds and preserves momentum
Before beginning a revitalization process, church leaders should honestly assess their readiness in these three areas. If weaknesses exist, addressing them proactively can dramatically improve the likelihood of success. Remember that successful revitalization isn’t about church size, age, location, or resources—it’s about leadership, courage, and commitment to consistent action.
With clear-eyed recognition of potential obstacles and a firm commitment to overcoming them, your church can become a revitalization success story rather than another statistic of stalled transformation.
Watch this episode on YouTube!
Scott Ball is the Vice President and a Lead Guide with The Malphurs Group. He lives in East Tennessee with his wife and two children. (Email Scott).
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Episode Transcript:
A.J. Mathieu:
Is your church at risk of failing in a revitalization process? Stick around right now for the Church Revitalization Podcast.
Introduction:
Hello, and welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast brought to you by the Malphurs Group team, where each week we tackle important, actionable topics to help churches thrive. And now, here’s your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu.
Scott Ball:
Welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I’m joined by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu.
A.J. Mathieu:
Whoopee. That’s the thing. You’re excited. I like it.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. We were in, Europe working with, some churches over there a few weeks ago. And, for those of you who are listening to the podcast and don’t know, AJ’s last name is spelled m a t h I e u. And it was fun to hear some people say AJ Mathieu?
A.J. Mathieu:
Mathieu? Yeah. Yeah. They get it. They get it over there. They know what’s correct.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. But you’re an American, by golly. So it’s Mathieu.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. And probably with a strong Texas accent, if I’m saying it. So very not French.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, alright. Today we’re talking about the three types of churches that fail in a revitalization process.
A.J. Mathieu:
Cheery topic for you. Yeah.
Scott Ball:
Exactly. But, you know, not every church that starts a revitalization process is successful in a revitalization process. And, that’s I would I would contend this is bonus material. This isn’t in the points. If you’re working with someone on the outside to help you, you have an advantage. And so I would say, you know, when we’re working with churches in the strategic envisioning process, the likelihood of you failing is much lower just because you’ve got someone holding your hand and taking you through. And, you know, we’ve done it many, many, many, many times, so we know what we’re doing. But even with the churches that we work with, there are degrees of success.
Scott Ball:
And and, and so this episode is sort of born out of seeing the churches that have been not as successful in the process, and there’s some, I would say, three common reasons when a church doesn’t do as well as they could. It’s usually one of these three things.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yep. And
Scott Ball:
it’s not spoiler alert. It’s not like it’s not there was bad ideas. It’s not that their plan was no good. It’s not like they didn’t come up with a creative enough project or, you know, a cool enough, mission statement, like or or that the the people in their church are just, wow, they’re really dumb. I mean, it was or they’re too old or they’re too small. Like, those things that you might have in your head, like, I’m not equipped enough or our church isn’t big enough or our church is too old, those are never the reason. That’s true.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. And in fact, yeah, by the time you get to the end of this episode, you you you might realize these can all you can be aware of these on the front end. Yeah. And I guess and maybe you could come to the decision that we would not we would not succeed because we don’t think we can overcome these things.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. That’s true.
A.J. Mathieu:
You could say that. However, they are all things that you could know about yourself, proceed, and succeed.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. Well and I would say at the risk of sounding click baity, and I don’t mean to, but I did save the most common reason why churches aren’t successful for number three. And there’s three things. So, yeah, you gotta listen to the end to get to, the the one that’s the most common.
A.J. Mathieu:
Alright. Before we get started, this episode is brought to you by the Healthy Church’s toolkit. So go to
Scott Ball:
Yeah. Which is us. We own that. Self sponsored. Self sponsored.
A.J. Mathieu:
We do recommend because there there’s there’s just tools, there’s training in there that can help your church succeed, whether in the middle of revitalization or just doing the day to day things in wanting to be a healthy church, wanting to grow your church, wanting to make disciples. So, go to healthychurchestoolkit.com. You can get more information there and sign up for a free seven day all access, experience in the toolkit.
Scott Ball:
Yep. You got it.
A.J. Mathieu:
Let’s go with, three reasons why a church may fail in a revitalization process. The first one sorry. Just I mean, just hold on to your seat because none of these are
Scott Ball:
None of these sound nice.
A.J. Mathieu:
We’re not couching any we’re we’re not pulling any punches here. Poor the poorly pastored church may fail in a revitalization process. And we’re gonna break this down. We’re not just gonna drop a bomb on you. But first of all, you as pastor, if you if you are who who are listening to this, you’ve gotta be fully engaged. You’ve got to want it. You’ve gotta wanna participate in it. You’ve got to support it.
A.J. Mathieu:
You’ve got to champion it. You’ve got to work hard at it. If any of those are not what you’re interested in, you are likely to be a failure point going forward. So you need to be realistic with yourself. Am I behind this? Do I want it? Am I willing to change? Am I willing to step up perhaps into a higher level of leadership than I normally exercise? Because if you’re not, you will be a failure point. Not saying your church will not succeed at all, but you are going to be an obstacle to success moving forward. And so we try to be super clear about this on the front end, about how difficult or challenging a revitalization process can be. It’s not complicated, but it’s not easy.
A.J. Mathieu:
And and the pastor can be can be a problem there. This is something we really have to dig into when we get a call from a church elder or another leader in the church, perhaps just a non senior pastor contact that wants to talk about the options for leading their church through a revitalization process. If the senior pastor unless the senior pastor, you know, has made it known, it’s publicly known, he’s retiring, he’s gonna be leaving the church, if he intends to continue to be the senior leader in the church and he is not a part of the conversation on the front end, that is going to come up later. That’s going to be an issue. And and we’ve worked this from a lot of angles, and and we know that. But the pastor has got to be a positive champion of the process from the start.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. I mean, I think, while I stand by number three being the most common reason why churches fail, in a revitalization process, this is maybe the fastest route to sort of a DOA revitalization process. It doesn’t why I say most number three is most common, and not this one, though, is usually we’re contacted by a church in the path often by the pastor, you know, so the pastor is already on board. It’s rare that we are talking with a church where they’re trying to win over the pastor. It it it’s not never, but it’s it’s more rare. And in those circumstances, it really is hard. I I can only think of a couple instances where the pastor was lukewarm at the beginning of the process, and we won them over, and they champion. In fact, one of the churches that I think you know, I I can think of one or two churches where that was the case, and not only did it work, it was really successful.
Scott Ball:
But Yeah. Often, if the church is if the pastor is lukewarm, then he becomes real cold on it. And if the pastor becomes cold on it, it’s just not gonna work. It it’s not. An analogy, that you all have heard me use before if you’re a regular listener to the podcast, and you’ll hear it again now and you’ll hear it again in the future, is I like to say that, you know, no one gets on a plane without knowing where the plane is going. You know where the destination is, and the pilot is the one who is merely taking you to a shared destination. And and in the metaphor, the the pastor is the pilot. So it’s not that the pastor shouldn’t be the one who solely is responsible for figuring out where the plane is going to land.
Scott Ball:
He might have a lot of control and influence over the route you take to get there, but everyone on the plane knows what the destination is. And, you know, if you’ve got a pilot who’s going, I don’t wanna take this plane to Toronto, that’s gonna be a problem. Like, it’s gonna be if everyone on the plane is going, we’re going to Toronto, and the and the pilot’s like, no. It doesn’t work. And so the pilot has to kinda get with the program or the pilot has to get off the plane. The other way that the poorly pastored church expresses itself, and I’m and I think this is maybe slightly more common, is that the pastor doesn’t know how to stand up to, objections Mhmm. And pushback. And so he’s on board with the process and on board with the decisions, But the second that there’s any sort of tension or pushback from people in the congregation, he folds.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. And, that’s that’s also a recipe for disaster. I I don’t know if you wanna talk about that.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. The conflict averse pastor is is often not a good revitalization leader for the reason you just said, Scott, but also and we’ve seen this as well, The ambivalent pastor on the front end. Like, it’s okay. I’m fine with it. You go ahead. I’m not I don’t necessarily wanna lead it, but go ahead. Other other people, you guys can do that. Well, you can’t you can’t do a church revitalization process without him becoming involved.
A.J. Mathieu:
And, again, you know, referring to my previous points, he’s gonna have to really lead it. And so he may be he probably doesn’t want it, but he said go ahead. You guys can do it because he’s conflict averse, and it’s gonna come back. And it’s it’s gonna it’s gonna become an issue at some point because he’s not gonna be on board with the changes. And, you’re gonna have to deal with that somehow, and that could go several different ways. But, yeah. The the poorly pastored church, is is one that fails and it requires a fully engaged pastor, wants to see positive change happen in the church, and is willing to lead through difficult situations as a part of the implementation of it.
Scott Ball:
It. You know, I had a situation with, this is wasn’t church related. It was something not related to church at all, actually. Trying to be nonspecific. But, there’s a person that I had, was trying to get their help on something, on an issue. And to my face and they were a person who could do something about it. And to my face, they were like, yeah. This is a problem.
Scott Ball:
Totally. I get it. Like, every time I talk to this person, he was agreeing with me and saying, yeah. This isn’t good. And then when time came for him to make a decision about, you know, in a in a meeting that he was going to, he totally went the other direction on it. And that was so disorienting to me. I thought, why how come every time I talk to you, you said you you understand and you get it? And and then when it came time for you to sit in a meeting where you could have influence over it, you went you took the other position. So were you were you lying to me, or were you just trying to make me feel better? Like, what what was the point of that? And and I think that this is what happens a lot of times in churches when you have a pastor who’s conflict averse.
Scott Ball:
You you think you’re dealing some with something pastorally. You’re having a conversation with someone, and you’re telling them, I hear what you’re saying. Yeah. I totally agree. This is a challenge. And then when you turn around and but then you still sort of follow through on what the plan said, it’s good that you followed through on what the plan said, but now you’ve got someone who kind of hates you. Those are like, you you looked at me in the eye and you told me you understood and that you agreed with me that this was a problem. And then you went into a meeting and you did something different.
Scott Ball:
And so you you can’t like, when you encounter opposition, you should handle it pastorally. You shouldn’t be aggressive, but you should speak clearly and transparently and truthfully.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah.
Scott Ball:
And say, hey. I do hear what you’re saying. I understand your frustration, but we are going to be going in this direction. And let me let me share with you why we’re doing it.
A.J. Mathieu:
Mhmm.
Scott Ball:
That is something that so many pastors are afraid to do, and it and it’s a killer for a revitalization process.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, perhaps with good intentions on the on the front end of, you know, wanting to maintain the relationship.
Scott Ball:
Yeah.
A.J. Mathieu:
But it was sort of a disingenuous desire to maintain the relationship by saying one thing, doing something different later.
Scott Ball:
So relationship killer. I wasn’t particularly close to this person anyway. You know, it was more of an acquaintance than a friend. But that that killed even that. Yeah. It’s like I I can’t trust you.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, let’s let’s move into our second point, Scott, and that is the timid church. The timid church could become the failure point in a revitalization process. It’s almost sort of the church version of what we just talked about, The the poorly pastored church, the timid church. This is the timid congregation.
A.J. Mathieu:
This is kind of everybody except the pastor perhaps, although he might might be part of it as well. Not having the fortitude to make positive changes going forward. Yeah. It might it might be lip service on the front end, but when the rubber meets the road, they’re not really ready to put that effort in and have the stick to itiveness to move through the difficult components that come up along the way when you’re trying to revitalize a church. It requires change. There’s no way around having a church move from an area of dis health into an area of health without something being different. You have to you have to make some kind of changes. You gotta make a good plan.
A.J. Mathieu:
You gotta start executing on that plan. You know, pieces and pieces all stacking, one on the next. And, and that just requires the church to be or the majority of the church to be positively moving together on that. And so the timid church that that backs away from it you know, I mean, think Israelites in the desert. They come up they came up against the barriers of the promised land, the giants in the land. The timidity of the Israelites led them to, you know, spend another forty years before they reach the promised land. Your church might not have forty years left in it. Yeah.
A.J. Mathieu:
You cannot be timid when you come up against the giants. You’ve gotta be ready to slay them. And, and that’s what church revitalization is.
Scott Ball:
I think that this manifests itself in one of two ways depending on the size of the church. So and, again, I’m speaking in generalities for smaller churches. This is typically an unwillingness to to cut or streamline or change a program that isn’t working. You know, there are a lot of churches that they used to be 200 people, and now they’re 50 people, but they have the same number of committees. And they don’t have enough people to staff them all, so you have, you know, some people who are serving on three or four different committees or some committees that are just technically defunct, but they’re not they haven’t officially been cut. You know? So there’s all this extraneous excess bureaucracy in the church, which is a killer. Or you have, you know, ministries have scaled back out of necessities, especially during the pandemic, but the things that stuck around are not the things that are fruitful. And so, you you know, you have these few things that are left and there’s an unwillingness to change them or cut them or do them differently, even though they’re not they’re not spiritually fruitful.
Scott Ball:
That that’s what that looks like in a small church. In a larger church, we may maybe aren’t calling it revitalization. Maybe we’re calling it optimization or something like that. But it’s the the same problem exists, but those, entrenched politics, church politics are usually at the staff level. I don’t want you to touch my program. I don’t want you to touch my budget. I don’t want you to touch my thing. And it’s just rooted in fear.
Scott Ball:
If you cut my program, does that mean I’m gonna lose my job? You know, what would my job look like? You know, are people gonna think I’m not any good at my job if we change my program? Is that a is that a reflection on me personally? You know? And and I I get it. But, the mission has to be bigger. The strategy has to be bigger than any one person, whether it’s a small church and it’s a group of people who, you know, are intransigent against change or whatever, or if if it’s a larger church and you’re talking about a staff that’s kind of entrenched as well. In any case, you have to get people to think about the bigger picture.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well and then our third point, Scott, is I mean, it’s the big one. It’s related to our second point. I mean, it’s it’s more of kind of an all church attitude. And we’re saying we’re calling it the lazy church. So what’s the difference between timid and lazy? Well, timidity is, you know, kinda recognizing the obstacles and sort of having an unwillingness, to to take it, to even start. But the lazy church comes up against even the just the basics of the work, and they’re just not willing to commit to it, put the time into it.
A.J. Mathieu:
They’re they just kinda they don’t even maybe begin with very much momentum. They it was all sort of lip service on the front end. We can we can all suffer through a couple of meetings, and, you know, maybe make some plans. But when it comes time to actually do the work, we’re just comfortable continuing to do what we’ve always done. We just don’t really wanna put in the effort. And, unfortunately, yeah, this this is not uncommon in churches that are attempting revitalization. And I don’t think it’s necessarily even a particular size. Like, the smallest of churches are the most lazy.
A.J. Mathieu:
You can’t say that. Mhmm. It it kinda happens across the board.
Scott Ball:
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I I think so in the strategic envisioning process that we take churches through, we have a very prescriptive implementation process. We’ve talked about this quite a bit on the podcast, but, we have a way in which we ask you to do things. And churches that follow through and and take our instruction are universally successful. You know? I mean, they’re sure. There’s there’s still varying degrees.
Scott Ball:
And how would you define success? All of that. Fine. I I understand. But they all see progress towards their goals. That’s that’s maybe the simplest way of defining them. Significant progress and real success and things that they that they hang their hat on, and they go, wow. I never would have thought a year ago that we would be doing fill in the blank. So, I mean, real progress.
Scott Ball:
But the churches that don’t follow the implementation process that we lay out. I don’t wanna say that nothing positive happens from the process because it’s really I mean, I don’t even know that I can think of a church that didn’t have something positive as a result of the process. But they they don’t reach their full potential, not even close. And it’s because for whatever reason I mean, I think they don’t believe us when we say, hey. Please follow this exactly. They go, well, maybe I don’t know. Maybe we’ll do this our way.
A.J. Mathieu:
Mhmm.
Scott Ball:
Okay. I’m alright. And, and and it’s really about consistent. There’s no it’s not like our implementation process is rocket science, AJ. It’s really not. But, it does require high degree of commitment to doing things in a particular way. And there are a lot of churches that just aren’t willing to do that because they don’t want to pick the date, because they don’t want to hold people accountable to showing up to meetings, because they because they get distracted by things that are more urgent, because for all of these reasons they’re like, you know, and I’m telling you, this is why this is so important. If you lose momentum, momentum is real.
Scott Ball:
And if you lose momentum, it’s incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible, to regain it. Yeah. So if you’re working with us, with someone on our team, you know, AJ or I or one of our certified guides, and you and you get through the training and you get through the plan session, you get through the on-site phase of this, and you move into the implementation phase, and there’s a gap of time and you don’t start that implementation phase pretty quickly within within four to six weeks. People start to lose they forget. They lose interest or you or you have one implementation meeting, but then you don’t you’re you’re not meeting every month the way that we outlined. It’s just what are you gonna do? You can’t you’re not gonna have us come back again. I mean, we’re not gonna make different decisions than we did, and you’re not gonna wanna invest in that, the time and the energy and the resources in that. It it’s so hard to get people excited again, you know, when so I don’t know.
Scott Ball:
For all of those reasons, like, if you lose that momentum, it’s it’s very hard for the process to be as successful as it could be.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. And I think It’s not impossible.
Scott Ball:
I mean, we we you and I have both had churches that go, oh, man. We slacked off for three months. Yeah. And we don’t wanna get, you know, and then they they kick it in. But Yeah. That didn’t that’s not an easy thing to do, and and I, you know, I dare say there is a loss of success.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s not impossible to overcome. But, you know, I’d tell you what, I mean, I know you and I are biased, but I really believe our process as we have it laid out gives you the greatest chance of success because we get that training and planning work done really quickly on
Scott Ball:
the road.
A.J. Mathieu:
Not spending months and months of meetings and decisions and debates and all this stuff because it’s that so feels like something and it truly turns out to be nothing. You know, you can go months and months of of discussions and feel like you’ve accomplished a lot when you haven’t started doing anything real in implementation. So we get you to implementation really fast on the front end, and so that we don’t burn you out early. You know? I mean, we wanna get you into action early. Try to try to build that momentum, get some some muscle memory going, in a rhythm of meeting together and making small progress. So, yeah, I mean, I I really think we’ve got a well laid out process.
Scott Ball:
And I know we’re biased, and we we are biased, but the number of churches that talk to us and say we did, and I won’t mention names, we did x process. We worked with x program, and we and and the content was good, and the conversations were helpful, but we didn’t really change. We didn’t really do anything. And, and they’ll say, you know, on the back end of our process, this is the first time our church has actually executed. And, you know, again, it’s not rocket science. What the what we what we teach is not revolutionary in terms of its complexity or or something. It just it just flat out works. But, we’ve had a number of enough churches now not follow our instructions that we can tell you with 100% certainty, you must follow the process if you want to maximize your results.
Scott Ball:
It’s just that it’s just that simple. The the the the projects themselves vary, Mhmm. Obviously, from church to church, what you’re working on. We’re not talking about that. We’re talking about the manner in which you execute them.
A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. It’s pretty prescriptive. But, I mean, let you know, let’s leave you with some encouragement, though. This is all possible. Revitalization is possible in your church. Take these things to heart. You know? I mean, do an introspective look, and be prepared to overcome these if you think any of these three. Either either you as a as a leader or the leader in your church, your senior pastor, not being one that you think would be willing to lead through it, that you gotta look at that.
A.J. Mathieu:
Is your church gonna be timid? When when you come up against the giants, are you gonna run back to Egypt, or be stuck in the wilderness? And then finally, are you willing to put in the effort and not not be the lazy church that that fails to succeed because you failed to work? So be introspective about these things because if you can overcome these, if you have these elements and you choose to overcome them, you can find success. If these aren’t, anything in your church, then you’re probably feeling pretty good about yourself right now. And you’re like, maybe we really could do this. And we certainly believe you could.
Scott Ball:
We believe it. Yeah. And and, you know, the toolkit is a great place to start because there’s a lot of content in there. But the the pitch I wanna make here at the end is to contact us about working with a guide. You know, go to malphursgroup.com and see kind of what our process is. It’s right there on the home page. You can kind of get a sense of what we do and contact us because there is a real difference between trying to do this on your own and having someone come alongside you and help you. We’re a nonprofit organization.
Scott Ball:
If you’re outside of North America, we we essentially do the work at what you can afford to pay. We we have to fundraise a little bit maybe to get out to you. But, you know and if you’re in North America, our fees are extremely low. They’re they’re lower than any other organization at our level, and you’re not gonna find another group that does the quality of work that we do, at the at the fees that we offer. And so, yeah, we don’t I don’t often say that on here because this podcast is not a sales pitch. But I’m I’m sincere. If you listen to this and then go, those are things that we could make sure that we don’t do, then then you should then you should partner with us and let us take you through.
A.J. Mathieu:
That’d be good. Thanks for being with us this week on the Church Revitalization Podcast. Today’s show notes are linked below in your podcast app or in the YouTube description if that’s where you’re, consuming the podcast today. We are sure glad you’re with us. We’re here to support your church. Wanna see you succeed, and we’ll see you again next week.
