The Church Revitalization Podcast – Episode 286

The transition to a new pastor represents one of the most significant moments in the life of a congregation. Whether your previous pastor retired after decades of faithful service or departed under more challenging circumstances, how your church handles this leadership transition directly impacts your congregation’s future health and effectiveness. While much attention is given to the pastor selection process, what happens after a candidate accepts the call is equally important. A thoughtful onboarding period can set the foundation for a healthy, long-term ministry partnership that benefits both the pastor and the congregation for years to come.

Practice Intentional Hospitality

True hospitality goes far beyond organizing a welcome potluck. When a new pastor arrives, they’re not just starting a new job—they’re transplanting their entire life into your community. This transition involves learning a new environment, establishing new relationships, adapting to different church rhythms, and possibly processing the grief of leaving their previous ministry and city. The pastor’s family experiences these same challenges, often without the built-in relationships and purpose that come with the pastoral role.

Churches demonstrate genuine hospitality by creating opportunities for personal connection through small gatherings, coffee meetings, and shared meals. These informal settings allow both the pastor and congregation members to begin building authentic relationships outside the Sunday morning context. Consider helping the pastor’s family connect with necessary community resources while respecting their need for family time and space to establish their new home.

It’s also valuable to provide your new pastor with insight into key relationships within the church. Help them understand family connections that might not be obvious from shared surnames, and gently introduce them to individuals who carry significant influence in the congregation. Likewise, sharing information about local customs, community events, or regional celebrations helps the pastor avoid inadvertent missteps as they acclimate to their new surroundings.

Remember that pastoral families often make significant sacrifices to answer God’s call to your church. Thoughtful hospitality acknowledges these sacrifices and communicates that you value them as people, not just as ministry resources. The investment you make in welcoming your new pastor creates the foundation of trust necessary for effective ministry partnership.

Communicate with Grace and Clarity

Clear, gracious communication creates the foundation for a healthy pastor-church relationship. New pastors face a steep learning curve, and your congregation can help them navigate it effectively through intentional communication.

The early weeks of a pastoral transition often reveal unspoken expectations and assumptions on both sides. Your new pastor doesn’t arrive with complete knowledge of your church’s culture, traditions, or relational dynamics. Taking time to explicitly communicate these realities provides them with valuable context for ministry decisions.

When sharing information about church history or traditions, do so with a spirit of education rather than obligation. Help your pastor understand not just what you do but why it matters. This approach invites partnership rather than compliance. Meanwhile, maintain healthy communication boundaries by addressing questions and concerns directly with the pastor rather than engaging in gossip or triangulation. This “no parking lot meetings” approach prevents minor misunderstandings from escalating into major issues and will demonstrate the honor the position and person deserve.

Patience is essential during this phase. Your new pastor won’t immediately know everyone’s names or understand every church tradition. When miscommunications inevitably happen, assume positive intentions and provide gentle correction with grace and specificity. Remember that your pastor and their family are likely experiencing heightened stress during this transition period, so extending grace during missteps builds trust and demonstrates Christ-like love. It’s also worth noting that something your pastor gets wrong may not actually require correction. He shouldn’t be expected to become a clone of the previous pastor.

The quality of communication established in these early months often predicts the health of the long-term relationship. Establishing patterns of direct, gracious communication now will serve both your pastor and congregation well into the future.

Embrace a Season of Listening, Learning, and Openness to Change

Every pastoral transition inevitably brings change, even when a church isn’t seeking dramatic transformation. The arrival of a new leader naturally shifts dynamics and introduces fresh perspectives, regardless of how carefully your church followed its established traditions during the interim period. Healthy churches approach this reality with humility and openness.

Both the pastor and congregation should enter this season with listening postures. Your new pastor needs time to observe and understand your church’s history, values, and culture. Meanwhile, the congregation benefits from hearing the fresh perspectives and observations that only a newcomer can provide. This mutual learning creates space for discerning together where God might be leading your church in its next chapter.

While church traditions provide stability and identity, holding them too tightly can hinder necessary growth. When explaining church practices to your new pastor, focus on communicating the “why” behind important traditions rather than just insisting “this is how we’ve always done it.” This approach invites thoughtful evaluation rather than blind adherence. Remember that different doesn’t necessarily mean worse—sometimes a fresh approach can breathe new life into a church’s mission.

Create environments where conversations about potential changes can happen constructively. This might include forums where the pastor can share early observations, small group discussions about church vision, or leadership retreats focused on discerning next steps together. While a wise pastor won’t implement sweeping changes in their first months, the seeds for future growth are often planted during this initial season of relationship building.

The openness you demonstrate during this transition period significantly impacts your church’s ability to fulfill its mission in the years ahead. By approaching this season with humility and receptivity to God’s leading, you create the conditions for a fruitful, enduring ministry partnership with your new pastor.

Final Words of Encouragement

The transition to a new pastor represents both challenge and opportunity for your congregation. While statistics on pastoral tenure can be concerning—with the average stay lasting just a few years in many denominations—churches that intentionally invest in these early relationship-building practices significantly improve their chances of developing a healthy, enduring ministry partnership. By focusing on relationship before results and process before programs, your church can navigate this transition in ways that honor both your congregational identity and God’s future plans for your community. Remember that the effort you invest now in welcoming, communicating with, and listening to your new pastor creates the foundation upon which years of fruitful ministry can be built. This intentional approach doesn’t just benefit your new pastor—it strengthens the entire congregation and advances the kingdom work you’re called to do together.

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A.J. Mathieu is the President of the Malphurs Group. He is passionate about helping churches thrive and travels internationally to teach and train pastors to lead healthy disciple-making churches. A.J. lives in the Ft. Worth, Texas area, enjoys the outdoors, and loves spending time with his wife and two sons. Click here to email A.J.

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Church Revitalization Podcast Transcript:

A.J. Mathieu [00:00:00]:
We’re talking about a church preparing for a new pastor today on the Church Revitalization Podcast.

Introduction [00:00:06]:
Hello, and welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast, brought to you by the Malphurs Group team, where each week we tackle important, actionable topics to help churches thrive. And now, here’s your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu.

Scott Ball [00:00:25]:
Welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I’m joined by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu.

A.J. Mathieu [00:00:31]:
Right here.

Scott Ball [00:00:32]:
Alright. So we’re doing something, we don’t do this often, but we’re doing a bit of a series. Just two weeks. Can you call can you call two weeks a series? I

A.J. Mathieu [00:00:41]:
suppose Miniseries. That would definitely that’s the bare minimum miniseries.

Scott Ball [00:00:46]:
Yes. Miniseries. And so, we’re talking about new pastor onboarding, and we’re gonna talk about it from both perspectives. So, today, we’re talking about, you know, if you’re a church preparing for your new pastor to come on board. Next week, we’re gonna talk about if you’re the new pastor, what should you be doing to get ready to serve that new church? So if you’re listening to this and you’re going, irrelevant, turn off, I got some news for you. Odds are at some point in the future, if if this isn’t your situation right now, at some point, you’re gonna have a new pastor. If the Lord tarries, you know, we’re not eternal.

A.J. Mathieu [00:01:24]:
Statistically, if you just hired a new pastor, you could be talking about this in two point four years.

A.J. Mathieu [00:01:32]:
Oh, yeah. That’s depressing. Yeah. Or if you just hired a new pastor, listen to this so that it will be more than two point four years.

A.J. Mathieu [00:01:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because pastor tenure has been getting, lower and lower. So, yeah, that’s true. Yeah.

Scott Ball [00:01:51]:
I hope for you.

A.J. Mathieu [00:01:52]:
I hope for your sake, you don’t need these topics for a long time.

Scott Ball [00:01:56]:
Yes. But they’re good to have, and so yeah. So be book if you think this is not relevant to me right now, listen to it, file this away, and then and kind of bookmark it so that when you do need it, you have it. And vice for, you know, for next week if you’re the pastor and go, well, I’m not starting at a new church. Fine. You know, you for one, you can extrapolate these ideas for other staff that you might be hiring. But two, you know, you might you might be starting working at another church at some point in the future.

A.J. Mathieu [00:02:23]:
So Or maybe it could

Scott Ball [00:02:25]:
be three

A.J. Mathieu [00:02:25]:
to three to six months ago this transition has happened, and maybe one or both parties are thinking, did we make the right choice? May might not be too late for a course correction in relationship.

Scott Ball [00:02:37]:
Yeah. Totally. Okay. So let’s, let’s dive in then. Again, today, we’re talking about perspective of the church. How can the church set the new pastor up for success?

A.J. Mathieu [00:02:49]:
Yeah. So first of all, we just we’re just talking three points. We’re not gonna beat this all to death, but the first one is just practicing some intentional hospitality. And everybody might think that shouldn’t even need to be said, but, you know, I’m we have definitely seen some even from the start. Not necessarily an entire church being sort of standoffish, but there’s pockets sometimes. And it you know, there this probably has baggage with it even if if the reason that you have a new pastor now maybe wasn’t a pleasant experience or reason, then there could be some hurt going on, some people that that feel they were wronged. Just who knows? There’s a ton of reasons that not everybody might be super excited about the new person that’s coming on board. But, you know, I mean, as Christ followers, there is a certain way that we are called to behave in a certain amount of you know, I guess we’ll talk a little bit more about grace in our second point, but we should be welcoming and, try to make this work as best as we can as early as we can.

A.J. Mathieu [00:03:52]:
So, you know, there’s a certain level of maturity and humility that needs to take place. It should be the attitude, the general attitude of the church. And even you can follow your your grandma’s old old, rules there about, you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Don’t say anything at all until you’re ready to be nice. But, yeah, first of all, let’s be hospitable. Let’s welcome our new pastor and his wife or family, whatever the case may be, so that they feel like, okay, we’re ready to ready for a good start.

Scott Ball [00:04:21]:
Yeah. I would say too, on the same point here, two two factors to consider, and this is you know, your mileage may vary depending on the size of your church, the culture of your church, and so on. But there are people in your church that your new pastor needs to know and needs to know what kind of role they play. Not, you know, he’s gonna know, you know, if they’re an elder, this is someone I need to know. If it’s a staff person, this is someone I need to know. Those are obvious. But who are the people in the congregation who have outsized influence that the pastor needs to know and have start working on a relationship with. And I know we all like to be like, well, that shouldn’t be that way.

Scott Ball [00:05:10]:
No. I mean, this this is an organization that has people. It has and and politics is just people multiplied. So you need to know he needs to know. Don’t he shouldn’t have to make it a scavenger hunt to figure out who are the people who have outsized influence in this church. Do him a solid. Let him know. Okay.

Scott Ball [00:05:32]:
Here are the people you really need to be mindful of, and let him get a head start on building a relationship with those people and invest intentionally in them over the course of the first six months. Hopefully, over time, he has good relationships with all the people. Of course, that would be the goal, but there are certain people he probably needs to spend more time with early on. The second thing related to that, I would say, is give him a heads up about who’s related to whom.

A.J. Mathieu [00:05:57]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

A.J. Mathieu [00:05:57]:
You know,

Scott Ball [00:05:57]:
if they share a last name, that’s a good hint, but they don’t always share a last name. You know? And this person’s kin to that person’s, an uncle’s, a cousin, you know, this person’s kid, son, married, this family’s daughter, they’ve been in the church for twenty years, and you can really help a pastor not step in it accidentally by being like, I had a meeting with that guy, and they’re like, that guy is my uncle. And you’re like, okay. So, you know, do him a solid. If there’s a family tree that needs to be he needs to be aware of, help him out.

A.J. Mathieu [00:06:35]:
Yeah. Think through details. You know? There’s so much that just natural rhythms of the church or even of of the city culture that he may not be aware of. You know? I mean, He’s he’s he’s trying to figure out, why is this person all of a sudden seem, you know, kind of cold to me? And you find out, oh, well, they were part of this prayer group that meets twenty minutes before a service, and the past our old pastor would always pop in there and, you know, greet them in the morning, and you didn’t do that. Now they’re mat like, what? Who would who would have known that?

Scott Ball [00:07:10]:
Who would know?

A.J. Mathieu [00:07:11]:
There’s a million of those little details, and so just, you know, help help them understand the things that the unwritten things that people might be expecting and because he’s not a mind reader. And and you don’t know how detailed even the hiring process was, how, you know, how much might have been he might have been informed about. But also, I mean, I know there’s a lot of you listening just from all over the world, and we do a lot of work with international churches that have these kinds of transitions. That brings a whole new element to this. Culture changes, even in The US.

Scott Ball [00:07:46]:
I was gonna say that’s true in The US too.

A.J. Mathieu [00:07:48]:
You know, yeah. Somebody from the Northeast going to, you know, South Texas is is going to have a a a very interesting experience, just like somebody new from The U. S. Going to, you know, lead a church in Singapore or somebody in Germany leading a church in Thailand. So just help them to get integrated in to understand timing and rhythms and relationships and cultural idiosyncrasies.

Scott Ball [00:08:16]:
Yeah. I mean I mean, like, I live here in in East Tennessee. I live in Bristol. The the the race the Bristol Race, the spring race is this weekend. It’s also Palm Sunday, at the time that we’re recording this. So, you know, if you were new to the area, a new pastor, you just didn’t know what is race weekend going to be like at my church. And you might go, well, it’s Palm Sunday. It should be a high attendance Sunday, but it’s race weekend.

Scott Ball [00:08:44]:
So, you know, there are a lot of people who work the race. You know, they they they make a little extra cash on the race weekend, or they get out of town because they don’t wanna be around all the race people who come in. If you didn’t know that, you might go, what happened? Where where was everybody? Those are all kinds of things that you if you’re not from an area, you just don’t know them. And and you might have things like that. So do them a solid. Help them know what’s the the relationships inside the church they need to know, the cultural things inside the church they need to know, but also maybe those eccentricities about the city or the community or the, you know, the region that you’re in that they maybe don’t know, particularly if they’re not from from there originally.

A.J. Mathieu [00:09:26]:
That pastor might be thinking, why does this church talk about race so much?

Scott Ball [00:09:30]:
It’d be pretty hard. It’d be pretty hard

A.J. Mathieu [00:09:32]:
to miss, like, the

A.J. Mathieu [00:09:33]:
Boy, race is an awful business deal here.

A.J. Mathieu [00:09:35]:
Speedway that seats a 20,000 people or something

Scott Ball [00:09:39]:
to do because it’s pretty obvious. Although, I will say this. I lived I’ve lived here twenty years, and race weekend sneaks up on me because I’m I was I promise you earlier this week, I was like, it’s race weekend this weekend. And then I just start dreading it. I’m like, oh god. It’s gonna be there’s gonna be a lot of jean shorts, and,

A.J. Mathieu [00:09:57]:
you

Scott Ball [00:09:58]:
know, I’ll just leave it at that. It’s an it’s an interesting crowd.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:02]:
Cut off some caps.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:04]:
Cut off some caps. Cut off some caps.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:05]:
They pass me

Scott Ball [00:10:05]:
a cold one. Thursday through Monday morning, it’s an interesting place.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:13]:
We’ll just we’ll just say that.

Scott Ball [00:10:15]:
Alright. Collective IQ drops a couple of points.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:20]:
Okay.

Scott Ball [00:10:21]:
And if I’ve offended any race fans listening, I’m not sorry.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:24]:
You get it. You know. Because if you’re listening

Scott Ball [00:10:27]:
to this podcast, you’re smart. So you know if you’re a race fan, you know what I’m talking about.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:33]:
Number of laps under caution similar to I q.

Scott Ball [00:10:36]:
Hey. We are we’re we’re we’re we’re home to the world’s fastest half mile.

A.J. Mathieu [00:10:42]:
So And it is a good place to live. I’ll just leave it at that. Let’s move on to point two, communicate communicate with grace and clarity. So we’ve we’ve bled into this a little bit in in our first point, But knowing this is this is a new relationship. I mean, let’s let’s give grace. Kind of our response, I suppose, to perhaps some of the faux pas that might have been executed in point one in how we handle this new relationship in in this For example

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:11]:
Yeah.

Scott Ball [00:11:12]:
I’ve lived here twenty years. I have the right to make a race stroke like that. About the race. About the race.

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:21]:
God has the right to make race jokes.

Scott Ball [00:11:25]:
I about the Bristol race.

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:27]:
I can make jokes about that. How about racing? Those are we’re talking about auto racing.

Scott Ball [00:11:32]:
Yeah. If it’s your first race weekend in Bristol, you shouldn’t make a joke about the race.

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:39]:
Oh, okay.

Scott Ball [00:11:40]:
You know what I mean? But if they do, give them some grace and pull them aside and be like, probably wouldn’t make a joke about that because it does support the economy pretty significantly. So

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:51]:
Yeah. You know?

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:53]:
Okay. Alright.

Scott Ball [00:11:55]:
Get some street cred before you start making cutoff and cap jokes.

A.J. Mathieu [00:11:59]:
Other things to keep in mind, no we you know, we call them when we’re working with the church, and we have our planning session with a strategic leadership team, we always say no parking lot meetings. Like, we’re here in a space intended to have conversations and ideas and decisions. Don’t don’t leave after the meeting and go have your little parking lot conversations and and talk about what he wished was different. Don’t do that with your new pastor.

Scott Ball [00:12:23]:
Yeah.

A.J. Mathieu [00:12:24]:
Parking lot conversations about what’s going on as he’s trying to get up to speed and serve you to the best of his ability. When we have things, let’s take it to him. Let’s just have a mature Christian conversation about concerns or ideas or faux pas, things that, you know, probably would be easy to get beyond early in the relationship when handled with grace and clarity, specificity. So, we need to keep our gossip out of the church, which we should be doing anyway, and make sure that this is just the most welcoming and gracious environment possible.

Scott Ball [00:13:01]:
Yeah. I mean, I I, I grew up at a church that the longtime pastor retired or semi retired. And, that that when the next guy came in, you know, there were some older ladies. The pastor’s wife was teaching a Bible study, and everyone raved about how good of a teacher she was, but they just didn’t like her. And and so they would say the meanest, nastiest things to this woman. And so she she would hide in her car until a minute or two before the class was going to start, and then she would go in and she would teach the class and then leave as soon as it was over. That’s terrible. Yeah.

Scott Ball [00:13:48]:
It it was really bad, and he the pastor did not make it a year. They ended up getting divorced. Like, the the it was such a nasty, hard situation. It strained their marriage. And so these when you are a ministry couple, you are in the pressure cooker, and you have some control as the church under how much pressure you’re putting that couple under.

A.J. Mathieu [00:14:09]:
Yeah.

Scott Ball [00:14:10]:
It’s hard anyway. But when you do that triangulation and the gossip and all of those things, you’re increasing the pressure. And so be be the outlet valve where you’re going, hey. We’re gonna we’re gonna release the steam. We’re gonna make sure that there’s not too much pressure and too much expectation on this couple in this season.

A.J. Mathieu [00:14:30]:
Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s a great point, you know, not not thinking only about, you know, the pastor, but but his wife and their kids, you know, if that’s if that happens to be the case. Because, yeah, this is a big thing. Don’t assume that, you know, the smile that you might be getting on Sunday is always there, and there could be some, you know, some tough things that they’re dealing with trying to to develop new relationships, you know, maybe even mourning what what they’ve given up, whether they, you know, they might have left a wonderful ministry environment and felt called to go to wherever you are, but that doesn’t make it just easy, though, you know, to give up relationships and house and environment, weather, whatever the change might be. So just keep all that in mind. Just try to try to get outside of yourself. Look at it from their perspective. Try to make that as easy as possible for them.

A.J. Mathieu [00:15:22]:
Yep. Alright.

Scott Ball [00:15:23]:
Last one. Number three.

A.J. Mathieu [00:15:24]:
Last one. I guess the way we’ve written it is embrace a season of listening and learning. And this is the clincher, I think, here, an openness to change. And we’re going to we’ll be counseling the pastor next week in the second part of this about how rapidly change should be considered or, begin to happen. But from the church’s side, you should expect things to be a little bit different anyway. I mean, that should just be like a general assumption. Different person, different leadership style, different way of working through vision. Things will be different.

A.J. Mathieu [00:16:06]:
You cannot change people out and expect everything to be the same. But you should have an openness to change anyway, even just throughout your pastor’s tenure, so that the church doesn’t become stale or insider focused or plateaued and then into a declining position. Listen to the pastor as well. You know, we’re asking you to provide good information in our previous points. Provide by him good information. But listen to him as well. Listen to to ideas, and and neither party should be trying to make, you know, big changes very quickly. But but if you’re open to hearing new things and new perspectives, then it’s really going to make this work a lot better for both both sides.

Scott Ball [00:16:47]:
Yeah. I would I would say, you know, and depending on when you’re listening to this and where you’re at in a process, like a hiring process or transition, it may may or may not be relevant

A.J. Mathieu [00:16:57]:
to you. But this is why we encourage churches to

Scott Ball [00:16:57]:
go through a strategic planning process encourage churches to go through a strategic planning process prior to hiring a new person, because we we believe strongly that the strategic direction, or the vision at least, of the church ought to be owned by the church itself, you know, that the church has a has a direction that it wants to go. And when you’re hiring a a new senior pastor or lead pastor, it’s not his job to figure out where is this church going, it’s his job to help steer the church in that direction. And of course, the church is gonna be colored by that leader’s personality and skills and strengths and weaknesses, but the overall destination is is something that the church should own and agree with and ideally before the the pastor comes or if that didn’t happen, then in collaboration with him. That being said, I think what happens often is churches this is why the tenure is so short. Churches go from pastor to pastor till they try to find one who hits on where they wanna go. And and so, you know, pastor comes in even if he’s not pushing the change too quickly, it can be that when the change does come, they go, well, I didn’t like that. I don’t like that at all. And so they wanna just shut it down and they they drive them out and they kick them out.

Scott Ball [00:18:27]:
Mhmm. And so I guess this would maybe be a pre step or a sub point of point three, but if you’ve not yet if you if you’ve not hired a new pastor yet, but you need to soon, go through a strategic envisioning process before you start the hiring process so that when you hire someone, it’s not a surprise to them what the direction of the church is, and, also, it’s not a surprise to you when he starts trying to take you there.

A.J. Mathieu [00:18:53]:
Yeah. We’re not at all advocating for this hired hand perspective on a pastor. We’re advocating for having a good awareness of the heart of the church in a sense for where God is leading it to find your next pastor being a wonderful partner and collaborator in that, hearing also then from a shared vision from his experience and perspective and what God is putting on his heart for your church to lead it well into the future. So it should very much feel like we’ve really found the Holy Spirit has really connected us with the right person so that we can just really do great things on mission together going into the future. Not like we’ve got a checklist and we had to go through three passengers before we finally found the one. Yeah. That’s that’s not a not a healthy environment.

Scott Ball [00:19:46]:
Yeah. And I I think I feel like I share this this metaphor every week on the podcast now, but it really is that when you get on the airplane, you know where it’s going, but you ought to trust the pilot on on making decisions. I was on a plane, like, a month ago or a month or two ago. We were supposed to be landing, and then there was a plane on the runway. So we had to go around. We didn’t find out until we were on safely on the ground and nearly at the gate. Then then he came on and said, hey. Here’s why we did this.

Scott Ball [00:20:16]:
We we needed to go around because there was, you know, there was a runway incursion, they call it. I trust the pilot. I don’t need I don’t need to chime in on everything, but we agreed on a destination to begin with. I knew I was going to, in this case, Charlotte. And there are limitations to the metaphor, but when you hire a pastor, you should have certain things that you agree on, and then there are gonna be other things where you’re gonna need to, as a church, not totally surrender, like you can I mean, like you don’t have to totally just be like, well, whatever he says goes, but you should have some trust by virtue of the relationship between the pastor and the congregation where you go, okay? If he’s seeing a need for us to do a go around, we we should be inclined to trust his judgment. And sometimes churches, I feel like, when they hire someone, it’s adversarial from the beginning. Like, he has to prove it. Give it time.

Scott Ball [00:21:13]:
Trust the guy.

A.J. Mathieu [00:21:14]:
Know that you probably have some blind spots because history kinda creates that. You know? Longevity can create that. Rhythms create that. And so, when he questions something or wants more information or suggests something, it’s just additional areas to be open to. Hear what he has to say with grace and have conversations. So, there you go. Embrace this season as one of relationship building and being open to new ideas and to change. I think that’ll help make things work a little bit smoother, Scott.

Scott Ball [00:21:48]:
Absolutely. Okay. Today’s article is linked in the description below. If you’re watching on YouTube, it’s down there. And if you are listening on whatever podcast platform, it’s in the description there. So click the link to read today’s article. I wanna encourage you to sign up for the Healthy Churches Toolkit seven days for free. Go to healthychurchestoolkit.com.

Scott Ball [00:22:12]:
HealthyChurchesToolkit.com. Get 7 days for free. And, if you’re going through a transition or about two, there’s some great resources in there to help guide you along.

A.J. Mathieu [00:22:23]:
Thanks for being with us, everybody. We’ll see you again next week with part two of this new relationship between pastor and church. Take care.