The Church Revitalization Podcast – Episode 289

Let’s face it—leading worship is no small task. You’re part musician, part spiritual guide, and part traffic director for the congregation’s musical journey. It’s a balancing act that requires both talent and sensitivity. While most worship leaders have their hearts in the right place, some habits can creep in that might actually be working against your ministry goals.

We’ve all seen it (and some of us have been guilty of it): those well-intentioned practices that somehow miss the mark. The good news? Small adjustments can make a big difference in how effectively your congregation engages in worship. So with a friendly nudge and a smile, let’s look at five things worship leaders might want to consider retiring from their Sunday morning repertoire. These aren’t criticisms—think of them more as collective wisdom from years of observation, participation, and yes, a few facepalm moments we can all relate to.

1. Stop Singing in Keys That Are Too High

Picture this: You’ve practiced all week, mastered that Elevation Worship song in the original key, and you’re hitting those high notes like a pro. Meanwhile, half your congregation is standing there with their hands in their pockets, lips barely moving, wondering if they should fake it or just enjoy the show.

Here’s the uncomfortable truth—just because you can sing in that key doesn’t mean everyone else can. Those studio recordings are often pitched for vocal athletes, not your average person in the pew. When you sing in keys that are too high, most men in your congregation are silently wondering if they should attempt to sing an octave lower or just admire your vocal prowess.

The solution? Take it down a step or half-step. Yes, that might mean the verses feel a bit low for you, but that’s where your team comes in! The goal isn’t to perfectly replicate the recording—it’s to help your congregation actually sing rather than spectate.

Remember: If people aren’t singing, it doesn’t matter how impressive your vocal range is. You’re a worship leader, not a worship performer. Your success isn’t measured by how many notes you hit, but by how many voices join yours.

2. Stop Giving Long Explanations About Songs

We’ve all been there. The music fades, the worship leader steps to the mic, and suddenly we’re getting a five-minute TED Talk about their personal revelation while selecting this song. Meanwhile, the congregation is wondering: “Is this part of the worship set or did the sermon start early?”

Here’s a gentle truth: We don’t need to know that the Holy Spirit woke you up at 3 AM to tell you to play that new Bethel song. We don’t need the backstory of how you were sitting by a river during your quiet time when this chord progression came to you. Most of us just want to sing!

When you announce “We’re going to do a new song today,” you’re also inadvertently telling visitors, “Hey, everyone else knows our songs, but you don’t!” To newcomers, every song might be new—why highlight their outsider status?

If you must introduce a song, keep it brief: “This chorus reminds us of God’s faithfulness. Let’s sing it together.” Then actually lead it in a way that helps people learn—maybe start with just acoustic guitar on the chorus before bringing in the full band.

Remember, your job on Sunday morning is to lead worship, not deliver bonus sermons. The pastor will thank you for not cutting into his time, and the congregation will thank you for letting the songs speak for themselves.

3. Stop Being Distracting When Giving Direction to the Band

We get it—live music is unpredictable. Things happen. Monitors malfunction. Drummers occasionally forget that subtle transition into the bridge. But there’s a difference between discreetly guiding your team and putting on what looks like an interpretive dance routine mid-worship.

You know what we’re talking about: The dramatic arm signals, the exaggerated head nods, the frantic pointing at the sound booth when your mic cuts out. While you think you’re efficiently directing traffic, the congregation sees someone desperately trying to land an airplane on a short runway.

When you break a guitar string, we don’t need the wide-eyed panic face followed by elaborate gestures toward your backup instrument. Just keep singing, maybe step back from the mic momentarily, and handle it with as little fanfare as possible. Trust us—people will be less distracted by a string-less guitar than by your theatrical reaction to it.

The solution? Better preparation and more subtle communication. Run thorough rehearsals. Develop discreet signals your team understands. If you’re fortunate enough to have in-ear monitors, use them for team communication. If not, work on your “I need your attention but nobody else will notice” face.

Remember: The goal isn’t to showcase how well you can manage a worship band—it’s to make the mechanics of worship leading so seamless that people forget about you entirely and focus on the One you’re all there to worship.

4. Stop Singing Weird Songs at Christmas Time

Ah, Christmas—that magical time of year when worship leaders everywhere think, “You know what ‘O Come, All Ye Faithful’ really needs? A dubstep breakdown and an original bridge!”

Look, we appreciate creativity. We do. But Christmas might be the one time when the mythical “songs everyone knows” actually exists. Those classic carols have survived centuries for good reason—they’re singable, memorable, nostalgic, and packed with theological truth. Why reinvent the wheel when the wheel is already rolling along beautifully?

When you debut your indie folk EDM arrangement of “O Come, O Come Emmanuel” on Christmas Eve, you’re not being innovative—you’re making visitors who came expecting familiar carols feel like they walked into the wrong building. Even Disney, hardly a bastion of traditional Christian values, sticks with classic arrangements for their holiday celebrations!

We’re not saying you can’t freshen things up a bit. By all means, play those familiar carols with your church’s typical instrumentation. Add tasteful modern touches that don’t obscure the melody. But please, please let “Joy to the World” remain recognizable without tacking on that “Unspeakable Joy” chorus. The joy was already quite speakable as it was. You may be inviting unspeakable fury instead.

Remember: Christmas services often welcome your highest attendance of the year, including many folks who rarely attend church. Give them the gift of participation through songs they actually know, rather than making them spectators at your holiday music showcase.

5. Stop Caring About How Cool It Sounds

Let’s be honest—there’s a little rockstar in many worship leaders. You’ve practiced for hours, assembled a talented band, and part of you (the human part) wants people to notice how awesome you sound. You secretly hope someone will approach you after service and say, “Wow, that new arrangement was incredible!” or “The band was really tight today!”

It’s a natural desire, but it’s also a subtle trap. When we start chasing the perfect sound, the creative arrangement, or the cutting-edge song selection, we can lose sight of what actually matters: are people singing?

Take a moment during your next service to look around (which is hard if you’ve got spotlights blinding you and the congregation sits in darkness). Are people engaged, or are they just watching the show? Can you even hear the congregation over the perfectly mixed instruments in your in-ear monitors?

This isn’t an argument against excellence—quite the opposite. True excellence in worship leading is measured by participation, not performance. Your most technically flawless set might be your biggest failure if nobody joins in. Conversely, a simple, stripped-down arrangement that gets everyone singing might be your greatest victory.

So chase the right metric. Ask yourself: “If I had to choose between sounding impressive or having the whole room sing loudly, which would I pick?” If you hesitated even for a second, it might be time for a heart check.

Remember: You’re not the performer—you’re the usher, guiding people into God’s presence. The best worship leaders are the ones who, paradoxically, help people forget they’re even there.

Watch this episode on YouTube!

---

---

---

Got questions? Meet with our team for a free Discovery Call.

Church Revitalization Podcast Transcript:

A.J. Mathieu:
Okay. Look out. Five things worship leaders should stop doing right now on the Church Revitalization Podcast.

Introduction:
Hello, and welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast, brought to you by by the Malphurs Group team, where each week we tackle important, actionable topics to help churches thrive. And now, here’s your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu.

Scott Ball:
Welcome to the Church Revitalization podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I’m joined by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu.

A.J. Mathieu:
Hey. You already got me you already got me worshiping over here. I’m already I’m ready.

Scott Ball:
Mhmm. A little bit, little bit of background info for those of you who are newer to the podcast who maybe don’t know, me very well. I’m I’m an oversharer, so you know a lot

A.J. Mathieu:
about my

Scott Ball:
Is there

A.J. Mathieu:
anybody that doesn’t know you at this point? I don’t know. But Okay.

Scott Ball:
If they’ve only listened to a few episodes or if this if this is your first time listening to the podcast, welcome to the podcast.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Because of that, the title of this episode, perhaps.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. Could be. You never know. But I’m a I’m a former worship leader. Now it was never really my thing. I, was a second cheerleader in planting a church in Tennessee. And when you’re planting a church, you gotta everybody’s gotta wear lots of hats. One of the hats that I wore was worship leading, and, I I discarded that hat as I as quickly as I could because it’s not really my favorite thing to do.

Scott Ball:
I got a guitar in the background. I don’t know if you can see it or not.

A.J. Mathieu:
But Are you, you consider yourself a former worship leader or a recovering worship leader?

Scott Ball:
Mhmm. I can, maybe a once in future once in future worship leader. Meaning, if you called on me to do it in a pinch, I’d help you out.

A.J. Mathieu:
Okay. Or for a large sum of money?

Scott Ball:
I no. Less inclined for the money, but if you needed help, I’d help you.

A.J. Mathieu:
How about that? And I have no credentials whatsoever on the topic other than being a highly opinionated worshiper Consultant. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. Yeah. I give that though, as background because, I’m gonna say some hard things to worship leaders today that you really need to hear, but they are all things that someone should have told me and maybe even tried to tell me back when I was leading worship on a regular basis because I would say I’m guilty of at least three of these, and would have argued with me about them, like why I am now currently wrong, why I was right to do these things previously. But I can tell you after a decade of church consulting experience working with dozens and dozens and dozens of churches around the globe, I was doing some things wrong, and and I see these bad habits today, and you should stop doing them. And if you’re a senior pastor, you can, like, send an anonymous email with this podcast linked into it, you know, if you don’t wanna start a fight.

A.J. Mathieu:
I would say our list is greater than 50% to the objective and and lesser to the subjective. Yeah. But yeah. We have a couple of things that could be subjective, but I think we’re I think we’re over half in the objective range on good versus bad ideas. Yeah. We’re engaged.

Scott Ball:
I think we’ve primed the pump well enough. Before we, before we start revealing these five things, though, I do wanna mention, go to healthychurchestoolkit.com and register for a free seven day trial. Lots of good stuff in there on how to be a better leader in general, boost your leadership skills, streamline ministry, make life easier for you. Go to healthychurchestoolkit.com. Get seven days free.

A.J. Mathieu:
K. Do that for a problem. I’m gonna I’m gonna let you Thanks for your enthusiasm. I’m looking at our list. I’m turning on you for any sales there, AJ. I’m super focused on our list now, on our

Scott Ball:
topic. Okay.

A.J. Mathieu:
I’m gonna I wanna let normally, we Volley, you know, We have kind of a rhythm. You know? AJ says it. AJ gives his 2¢. Scott comes in after. I want you to I want you to hit these on the at the top. Yeah. You you take us through this. I’m gonna jump in with my thoughts as we go.

Scott Ball:
Alright. Okay. Number one, stop singing in keys that are too high. I know I know that they sing it in b in the recording. You got that capo four, and you’re really happy about it. And you’ve worked really hard, and you can hit the notes. But you know who can’t hit them? Most people. Most of the guys who are sitting there in the service, they’re not hitting those notes.

Scott Ball:
And, and the the thing is it’s not working for the ladies either because when you sing in those keys, it’s kind of too low for them to sing in their regular octave, but it then it becomes way too high for them if they sing the the octave up. So it’s not a good key for anybody. Stop doing it. Just it doesn’t need to be the same key as the recording. Take it down a half step or a step so that it’s more singable. And then you go, but hold on a minute. Then I can’t sing the melody line because these songs often will start low, and then it’s the bridge or the chorus that’s way high. Fine.

Scott Ball:
Have the lady have have someone else who’s up there with you. They can sing the part that to you would then be kind of low, but they can sing it. So, you know, just get a little creative, but the goal is to get people singing. And when the key is too high, people will not sing along.

A.J. Mathieu:
So what’s from a professional standpoint in in song decision making arrangements and keys and all that stuff, is a worship leader more so just choosing a key that’s just good for for his or her vocal range?

Scott Ball:
I think so.

A.J. Mathieu:
Or try to get there.

Scott Ball:
Overestimate their vocal range. Yeah. There are a lot of guys who are like, I can get there. And they can. And, I mean, again, I this is one of the three for sure I was guilty of. And when I was singing a lot and singing all the time, and my voice was, you know, stronger, and your your, you know, your voice is a muscle, so when I when I was practiced a lot, I could I could sing, my natural voice went higher, because I could, and I could hit higher notes when I was singing and playing all the time. But now that I’ve been out of it for more than a decade, I I can’t hit those notes anymore, comfortably. And, so I can I can commiserate with the other men standing there? And, again, my voice is already naturally higher, so the guys who don’t have a voice as high as mine, they’re they’re they’re really, like they’re just standing there.

Scott Ball:
Like, I don’t know if you know this. They’re standing there, hands in pockets, maybe swaying or rocking. They are not singing.

A.J. Mathieu:
It that can app yeah. I mean, I tend to want to sing lower. Like, if if I can hit, like, maybe an octave, go down down the octave where I’m more naturally wanting to vocalize anyway, I suppose. You know, I mean, this definitely is an area that has some subjectivity to it because, you know, every song is different, and it the song itself might have a a large swing. Perfect magic that every song listening. Yeah. Right. So but I guess it’s, you know, part of maybe what your what your expertise is supposed to be is to just consider.

A.J. Mathieu:
Consider the song, try to try to use your expertise to to determine what’s gonna be the more closely broadly able to sing key.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. This is, like, maybe a subpoint and not related to key, and this is not on our list. But, you know, I guess a similar vein to this would be, like, if there’s a song that’s just weird you’re it’s just weird to play because it has a weird rhythm to it. That that song praise that’s really popular now, the Brandon Lake song. It’s like there’s a it starts off, like, let everything that has breath. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Elevation.

Scott Ball:
Brandon Lake can get up there with the all those guys, and they can do the clapping, and they can do the the the chanting. And when you’re in your room of a 20 people, they’re not people are not going to do that.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Some weird syncopation. Weird. With the chant what? You all didn’t catch the upbeat after, you know

Scott Ball:
Yeah.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. You’re gonna have quarter notes of rest.

Scott Ball:
It’s kind of a weird a weird drum part. Most drummers church drummers are not that good.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah.

Scott Ball:
I’m just being honest. Like, just quit. Just stop. That’s true. Don’t do it.

A.J. Mathieu:
There are some on the radio. Yeah. There are some weird song choices that that get made for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That’s okay. I think that fits in here for this one here. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. Okay. Alright. Alright.

A.J. Mathieu:
Alright. Alright.

Scott Ball:
Oh, yeah. I’m leaving these. Number two, stop giving us long explanations about songs, especially the ones when they’re when you’re doing a new song. I got two two points. Two reasons for this. The first one is to a new person, you’re immediately calling out to them what’s new to them. Like, to them, all the songs are probably new. And so when you go, well, we’re gonna do a new song, you’re immediately kind of everybody.

Scott Ball:
There are people in the room who go, well, these are all new to me. And it’s further reinforcing that you’re an outsider. I should know. The one that we just did that I didn’t know, I should know. Now this is one that maybe I guess we all don’t know it because it’s new for all of us. It just makes that part weird. Also, I don’t know. It’s maybe this is this is subjective.

Scott Ball:
It’s just a pet peeve of mine. I’m like, I don’t need to know why you picked this song, probably because you liked it. Probably you heard it on the radio or on Spotify, or the new Elevation album came out and you thought it was catchy. That’s the real reason. You don’t need to give me some hyper spiritualized the holy spirit came to you in a dream and told you we need to sing this new Elevation song.

A.J. Mathieu:
Doubter you are, Scott. Golly.

Scott Ball:
I hate all that. Can we stop? Just sing it. You wanna add a new song. You can say, this one’s new for us, but you’ll catch on and sing along. That’s okay. That’s maybe okay. But then lead it well. Don’t, like if you know it’s new, deinstrumentize a little bit so that people can hear the chorus really well.

Scott Ball:
Any new song, you wanna make sure that people learn the chorus clearly. So maybe start with the chorus and you run an acoustic, and then you then you drop out, and then you and then you hop into the, like, the the fuller instrumentation. But just I don’t need I don’t need the long talk. It’s just I don’t need a TED talk about the song. I don’t just sing it. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

A.J. Mathieu:
I don’t feel as strongly about this as you, but I am I am supportive of little less talk, little more playing.

Scott Ball:
Your job is to sing. Not I mean, if we it’s not your Sunday to preach, and so I don’t need an extra sermon. I don’t need to know I I don’t need to know all about your devotional life. I was sitting this week by the river, and the Lord was saying to me, and you’re playing soft chords.

A.J. Mathieu:
I don’t think you’re that.

Scott Ball:
You’re taking a song. Oh, my gosh.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. Now I wouldn’t mind, hey, you know, in in Galatians two, we read blah, blah, and this song where I think really speaks it well. That to me, that’s an appropriate amount of

Scott Ball:
interest. Talking about that. I’m talking about I’m talking about the three minute

A.J. Mathieu:
Personalization. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
I don’t know. I don’t care.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. I don’t wanna know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
I would say of the of the five things we’re going over, I was least guilty of this. I would speak, but only if it was in the thing for me to speak, like I had to give announcements or I was doing a community meditation, but I was not one to I’m just someone who knows me. He’s probably gonna listen be like, no no no, But I don’t think that this was me because it this is something that has always kind of annoyed me, so I tried my best not to do this. I think it’s distracting. I think we’re we’re not focusing on the moment.

A.J. Mathieu:
Too much can be distracting for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it is too much, if it’s your own personal therapy session, that’s right. You’re oversharing.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. Exactly.

A.J. Mathieu:
Get a podcast. You wanna overshare. You do it here. This is where we overshare. Okay? There are no captive audiences here, though. Nobody knows if you’re expecting something else.

Scott Ball:
That’s right. You at least have the option to tune out if you don’t wanna hear it. I gotta I gotta sit there at the pew, like, knowing I got three more of these songs coming up, or we’re gonna talk in front of all of them. Good gosh. Alright. Okay.

A.J. Mathieu:
Let’s go.

Scott Ball:
Okay. Number three. I’m so used to not being the one starting these. Okay. Number three, stop being distracting when you’re giving direction to the band. Some of you are really bad at this. Like, you don’t need to turn and do this number, you know, if you’re not watching on YouTube, like, it’s like the vamp kind of signal, like, or repeat do it again. Or if something weird happens, you break a string or you can’t hear in your monitor very well and doing this.

Scott Ball:
You know, I you know, if the microphone isn’t working, probably the people in the back know that. You don’t need to tap on it and point at it. Like, they’re they’re they’re on it.

A.J. Mathieu:
They’re working on it.

Scott Ball:
Like, there are all kinds of things in direction that you’re giving that’s distracting. So there are some ways to remediate this, from high-tech to low tech. High-tech solution, obviously, is gonna be using in ear monitors with click tracks. That’s gonna give direction on what’s next in the song. I’ve I’ve never played with that. I don’t wouldn’t like it because it’s to me, it would be distracting to hear the the click. But you could have, in ear monitors with with talkback bikes and have someone who’s not the main worship leader in the back being a music director and giving giving verbal cues both to tech and to the people in the back. That would be fine, and that’s relatively I’d say that’s mid tech.

Scott Ball:
You gotta have the in ear system

A.J. Mathieu:
Mhmm.

Scott Ball:
Which we had that even as a church plant, but just using a headphone amp. We didn’t have a fancy in ear monitor system. We were just using a headphone amp in the back and a running cable. So, that was cheap. And, the the low tech is just getting better, like, run really good rehearsals and get better at giving subtle clues that are not distracting.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. The you know, this one taken to extremes just demonstrates the lack of prep and rehearsal. Yeah. The on the one of the most examples that I’ve seen of this, I think.

Scott Ball:
Stuff happens that you can’t predict, like, technical things.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. But the set if this stuff is happening consistently, I think the issue is rehearsal time. Totally.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. And, like, if you break a string, don’t make a big deal about it. Like, sometimes guys make a big deal. Just I know it’s surprising and you feel like you gotta make a show of it, but just keep playing. And then when when the song’s over, I know now your whole guitar is out of tune, so don’t try to keep playing it. Just set it down. And if you’ve got someone else playing keys or something, just just roll with it. Like, let them play keys.

Scott Ball:
And if you’re fortunate enough to have a backup guitar on hand, grab the backup. That doesn’t always happen. Not everybody’s got that. It’s okay. But don’t make it big. You’re like, ho ho. I gotta. Now I gotta tune.

Scott Ball:
Ding, ding, nah. We don’t I don’t we don’t need we don’t need all that.

A.J. Mathieu:
Move on. There are there’s elements in this even as I mean, the some of this for some people that have never even noticed it, they’re so, you know, the things that you know, the there somebody might say, oh, yeah. Golly. It was shocking when they, you know, they did this. And and other people would be like, oh, I didn’t even see that. But sometimes it’s almost feels performative. You know? I mean

Scott Ball:
I think it’s just social awkwardness, like, not knowing I don’t know what to do with my hands, you know, kind of a thing, so they don’t know what to do. So you feel like you gotta say something. And and I I can relate to this. I’ve I’ve broken I’ve broken a string and, like, needed to tune in the middle, and you just don’t know what to do.

A.J. Mathieu:
So hard. Oh, man. Yeah. I’m just into it.

Scott Ball:
Or just not doing good maintenance and changing my strings as often as I should have.

A.J. Mathieu:
That crusty that crusty old string.

Scott Ball:
So yeah. Again, I’m saying this from a place of love and experience. You know, we don’t need to see all that.

A.J. Mathieu:
Okay. Alright. Three down. Two to go.

Scott Ball:
3 down. Oh, goodness. Okay.

A.J. Mathieu:
Number 4?

Scott Ball:
Number 4. Number four, stop singing weird songs at Christmas time.

A.J. Mathieu:
Let alright. Let’s let’s get into it. Let’s get into it.

Scott Ball:
I I believe we’ve I’ve made this statement before in an earlier episode, but I hate when people say, why don’t you just play songs that everyone knows? That’s that I I stand by that being the most annoying feedback to get as a worship leader because I stand by the fact that there’s no such thing as songs that everyone knows. Even if you talk about hymns, different traditions grew up with different hymn books, and so, that’s not even a fair thing to say. Except except at Christmas. This is the one time it’s the closest you get to everyone already knowing all of the words.

A.J. Mathieu:
And sometimes it seems like you wanna make sure we don’t know the song anymore that we just

Scott Ball:
do. You’re like, you know what? I’m gonna go out of my way to not sing a song that people know, and I’m gonna even make you think you know the song, and then I’m going to change the melody. I don’t get it. Christmas Eve is not the time to debut your indie folk EDM arrangement of Oh, Come Oh, Come Emmanuel. Like, I don’t need to hear it. Just

A.J. Mathieu:
Joy to the World was just fine for

Scott Ball:
decades. Oh my god.

A.J. Mathieu:
It never needed anything else.

Scott Ball:
It needed it didn’t need unspeakable joy. We were speaking the joy. The joy was to the world.

A.J. Mathieu:
We were speaking it. Stop speaking other non joy bringing things within the song. You’re bringing now you’re bringing me down.

Scott Ball:
Now you’re singing some other random song, but you’re adding Gloria in it somewhere, and now it’s a Christmas song. You’ve you no. It doesn’t work that way. It’s my cynical Scott says the new Christmas songs are just a scam be because of for these Christian music warehouses to make money because all all of the Christmas songs are in the public domain.

A.J. Mathieu:
Maybe so. I don’t know.

Scott Ball:
You can’t make money you can’t make money off of joy to the world unless you add a chorus, then you can. This is

A.J. Mathieu:
this is church’s greatest hits. Everybody’s there for the hits. Play it like we do it.

Scott Ball:
I don’t mind if you mess with the arrangement a little bit. You know what I mean? Like, the instrumentation, like, like, you know, just don’t get it. Maybe. Not too weird.

A.J. Mathieu:
Maybe? Yeah.

Scott Ball:
It doesn’t need to be orchestral.

A.J. Mathieu:
I don’t need a bluegrass I don’t need a choir

Scott Ball:
in the back. It’s okay if you’re playing it acoustic or you’re you know, whatever. That’s fine. But it it doesn’t need an extra weird chorus. You know? And I get it. I was 100% guilty of this. If anybody who’s listening to this podcast knows me, you know I have sung Unspeakable Joy on the stage, and I have and I have lobbied hard for Christmas songs that are nontraditional, thinking that it was good. And I’m just here to tell you I repent, and it wasn’t good.

Scott Ball:
It was never good. It was always a bad idea.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah, man. You know, I I, in my younger years, went to a pretty traditional mainline denomination church. And, you know, I mean, we were literally, like, the couple of times a year in church family. And so, I actually have, like, a, you know, like, an attachment to these songs, these traditional Christmas songs sung in church that I’ve almost not been able to recapture anywhere in adulthood because you never hear them just plainly done anymore.

Scott Ball:
You know where you can hear them?

A.J. Mathieu:
On the radio. I am on YouTube music where I can ask for anything I want.

Scott Ball:
You know, at Christmas time, if you go to Epcot, they do Speaking of They do the They do the Please. Hey. You can repent some more. They they do the candlelight processional, and a celebrity comes and reads the Christmas story out of Luke.

A.J. Mathieu:
Because that’s what we need.

Scott Ball:
And they sing traditional Christmas songs arranged.

A.J. Mathieu:
Disney can stick with, with something traditional, you can too.

Scott Ball:
Kinda my point, which is actually why I wanted to bring it up. Be like, if Disney if Disney recognizes this is one of their most they bring it back every year even though they hate Christianity pretty much. But this is so popular that they’re reading the Christmas story and singing traditional Christian Christmas hymns. Like, not not let it snow, let it snow, but, like, oh come, oh come, Emmanuel. They’re singing that at Epcot. If they’re doing it at Epcot, you should do it at your church.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. We should just made this a whole episode by itself. Let’s start by this one. Alright. Okay. Anything else? Anything else?

Scott Ball:
Maybe we will, like, Christmas time. We’ll bring it back.

A.J. Mathieu:
Have we gotten it all out of our system?

Scott Ball:
We got it out of my system. Yeah. Alright. Thank you.

A.J. Mathieu:
Alright. We got one more.

Scott Ball:
Number five. And this is maybe the maybe this is the capstone and really kind of the root thing of all of it. I would say you need to stop caring about how cool it sounds. I I get this one. Again, this I put this in the category of things that I’ve experienced and been guilty of. Especially if you’re a full time worship leader, you wanna be like, I I need to kinda prove that I’m doing something, you know, like, proof of work, proof that my job is valuable. And so there’s a temptation to just be like, you want people to come up to you after the service and go, wow. The music was really great today.

Scott Ball:
Like, that’s what you want. You’re kinda chasing people saying, you’re a really good worship leader, or you’re a great musician, or I the band sounded so tight today, or that was a great set. Those are the things you’re kind of chasing, maybe even on a subconscious level. And I would just encourage you to stop caring about that. Now don’t hear me say the music shouldn’t be good or excellent. It I think it should be both good. It should be excellent. But the goal is congregational singing, that the people in the room are singing along with you.

Scott Ball:
That’s the win. If you look around the room, one, if it’s so dark in there you can’t even see whether or not people are singing, which is Yep.

A.J. Mathieu:
You’re blinded by them anymore. By the white hot spotlight.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. If the lights are all on you, you can’t see who’s in the room. You don’t know if anybody is singing. You can’t hear if they’re singing, especially if you got in ears in. In ear. If your person hears you, then you don’t know if you’re winning. And and the goal has got to be I won’t I won’t put the pressure on you and say the goal is worship because worship is so much more than just singing as you know. But the goal would be congregational singing.

Scott Ball:
Let’s put the goalpost there. And you can become so distracted by is this creative enough? Is this cool enough? Is this on the cutting edge enough? Is it excellent enough? Is it all of those things enough that you lose track of are people singing with me? And that that to me needs to be sort of the baseline measurement of success. And and I, again, I’m I’m saying I’ll admit to my faults. I think number one, singing songs were too high. Definitely guilty of that. I worked hard on not not being distracting to the band. We didn’t have talk backs and stuff, so I had to do give signals, and I tried to do that as discreetly as possible. But so, but number four, guilty of singing weird songs at Christmas, and care and number five, caring about it sounding cool or creative, definitely guilty of that.

Scott Ball:
So three out of five, that’s an f. I think I’m failing. So this is not me judging you. I don’t know. I’m judging you a little bit, but lumping myself in the judgment and going, I’m as guilty as the rest of it.

A.J. Mathieu:
I’m gonna give the benefit of the doubt that most of this, if somebody is doing this, it’s not with any intentional thing that I think most strong majority of people leading worship are they care about it as their ministry, their calling. Yeah. Of course. And sometimes it end up maybe misguided or just, you know, make bad choices, have bad ideas. Things don’t play out the way maybe they thought it would in their mind. Yeah. You’re just swimming in it.

Scott Ball:
Like, it’s the pool that you’re swimming in and and, like, especially anymore with social media, your algorithm’s just blowing up with people who are killing it in in worship, and they’re doing things that are really cool. And I get it. You start going, I mean, could I do that thing? Could I incorporate that thing? Yeah. You just start chasing that, and you’re getting away from what the point is.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. But, you know, I mean, being aware of what everybody else in the world is doing can I mean, it’s a double edged sword? It can be, you know, it can be good for for ideas or, you know, to experience things. But, yeah, on the other hand, you’re like, oh, wow. You know, sometimes what other people are doing isn’t helpful or beneficial either. You don’t need to mimic them or try it.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. So Yeah. Exactly. So, that’s it. I’ll recap. Number one, stop singing songs that are too high. Number two, stop giving us long explanations about things or just talking. Stop stop talking, start singing, or just less of it.

Scott Ball:
Just minimize it. Yeah. Exactly. And some of it we don’t need to know at all. You should just never share. Three, stop being distracting when giving direction to the band. There’s different solutions to that. Some of that is just skill.

Scott Ball:
You learn it over time and will improve. Four, stop singing weird songs at Christmas time.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yep. Please.

Scott Ball:
And, stop caring how cool it sounds. Maybe a bonus thing I would say, maybe this is a start, not a stop, just to kind of wrap this up, is your job up there is you’re the leader? I think there are some guys and gals, who get up there, you know, and they’re concerned, like, am I in it? You know, they’re like, I gotta be up there and I’m I’m really into it. And, I don’t think that’s the job. I think the job is you are leading others in worship. You should be fully present. I think you need to kind of have eyes open. I’m not saying you can never have your eyes closed or whatever, but keep your eyes open. Watch what’s happening because what difference does it make if you’re you’re a % in it and you’re vibing and no one else is? Like,

A.J. Mathieu:
you That’s not the job. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
You are a worship leader. Mhmm. You are leading the singing of the songs.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. I think I I I think I, I’m picking up what you’re putting down there. Yeah. Yeah. That if you can get if you’re if you’re so experientially departed into the space of the song in the worship yourself, that for some reason that makes everybody else be there with you, and that’s not always the case.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. I think there are some guys who are like, and I got to be really feeling it. I’m like, you don’t, though. Like, that’s not the job. Feel it when you’re when you’re on your own. You know, that’s fine. But when you’re a leader, your job is to lead. And how does it can be

A.J. Mathieu:
true if you don’t have the, you know, the yeah. You can be you can appear very disconnected. But as a professional, that shouldn’t ever be evident.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. I mean, I I guess you should you need to be worshiping. I I guess my point is know what your role is. Your role is not to be up there sort of, like, people watching you worship, and then hopefully they’ll mimic you.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. That’s not what

Scott Ball:
it is. Yeah. Your job is to bring people along with you, and it and I know that’s hard. You and I were having conversation pre roll about what does that look like? What is what is leading look like? And and and a lot of it is is not it’s it’s you know, I can’t I can’t point to a technique or but it’s a soft skill that you develop in kind of reading a room. And it’s not altogether different from in some to some degree, like, what theater is. Like, being you know when you’re bombing, like, when’s when the audience isn’t with you and having to present yourself in a particular way so that people catch on with what’s happening. And and it’s that same preaching’s the same way. Are people connecting? Are are people dozing? Or the what am I you know, all of it these are leadership skills.

Scott Ball:
Some of them spiritual, some of them practical. And you Mhmm. And I would just encourage worship leaders to care more about the leadership side of the worship and not just the musical side of it. Like, have an awareness of are we leading these people.

A.J. Mathieu:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s I think that’s good. I think it’s a good way of of trying to put this into an understandable perspective. Yeah.

Scott Ball:
Yeah. Okay. There you

A.J. Mathieu:
go. That’s it. There you go. More than

Scott Ball:
ten years removed from the role. These are my reflections, and thank you for letting me get this off my chest. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

A.J. Mathieu:
Love it or hate it. Might have some extreme reactions to this, but you know what? It’s all beneficial to us on YouTube whether, you’re angry or you’re excited. The the algorithm loves your engagement. So you can you can let us know either way.

Scott Ball:
Smash that button, bell, and liking, and share this with a worship leader you know.

A.J. Mathieu:
To to make them also angry if you were. So, yeah, you can throw us into the bus. That’s that’s okay. That’s, yeah. Okay. We can take that every now and then. Alright. Hey.

A.J. Mathieu:
Thanks for joining us on the Church Revitalization podcast. Whether you are listening on your favorite podcast app or watching over on YouTube. We’ll be back in those same places again next week, bringing you, hopefully, something engaging, challenging, like it or not.

Scott Ball:
It’s really

A.J. Mathieu:
weekend. Thanks, everybody. See you next week.